Vilka nationella eller regionala åtgärder mot coronavirus är evidensbaserade?

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Nemesis
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Re: Vilka nationella eller regionala åtgärder mot coronavirus är evidensbaserade?

Post by Nemesis » Fri 22 Oct 2021, 20:57

dann wrote:
Thu 21 Oct 2021, 19:12
Nemesis wrote:
Thu 21 Oct 2021, 18:35
Och din poäng är...?
pwm's point is that ignorance can be used as an excuse for everything: Oh no, not us, we didn't know. Consequently, going for herd immunity instead of protecting people from the new infection was the right thing to do.
This is the reason why FoHM and Tegnell prefer to fly blind! Ignoransbaserade åtgärder är alltid bättre än evidensbaserede.
Ignorance leaves more room for magkänsla.
Nationalisterna i tråden är antagligen hopplösa fall. Har man hållit fast vid vetenskapsförnekelse och exceptionalism i ca 18 månader lär man knappast ändra sig nu. Antagligen identitetspsykologi som ligger bakom.
"Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof." - John Kenneth Galbraith

dann
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Joined:Sun 24 May 2020, 17:18

Re: Vilka nationella eller regionala åtgärder mot coronavirus är evidensbaserade?

Post by dann » Sat 23 Oct 2021, 15:56

Så gick det för landet med det unika målet – flockimmunitet!
DN compares Sweden and New Zealand and lies about both, then corrects the lie and removes Sweden from the comparison:
Före och efter rättning i https://dn.se/varlden/sa-gick-det-for-l ... a-viruset/….
Blev nog mindre intressant att jämföra med Sverige när det visade sig att Nya Zeeland satt fler förstadoser.
Urgt on Twitter (Oct 23, 2021)
Before:
Just den låga vaccinationsgraden jämfört med i andra utvecklade länder är en huvudorsak till skarp kritik mot den nya strategin. Eftersom smittotalen i Nya Zeeland länge var så extremt låga ansågs inte behovet av att vaccinera sig särskilt akut. Resultatet är att inte ens hälften av befolkningen är fullvaccinerad och färre än 70 procent har fått första dosen. I Sverige är 79 procent fullvaccinerade och 84 procent har fått första dosen.
Så gick det för landet med det unika målet – att eliminera viruset (DN, Oct 23, 2021)
After:
ust den låga vaccinationsgraden jämfört med i andra utvecklade länder är en huvudorsak till skarp kritik mot den nya strategin. Eftersom smittotalen i Nya Zeeland länge var så extremt låga ansågs inte behovet av att vaccinera sig särskilt akut. Resultatet är att knappt 60 procent av befolkningen är fullvaccinerad, enligt siffra från Johns Hopkins universitet.
Så gick det för landet med det unika målet – att eliminera viruset (DN, Oct 23, 2021)
Stats for New Zealand and Sweden:
Share of people vaccinated against COVID-19
Daily COVID-19 vaccine doses administered per 100 people
Daily new confirmed COVID-19 cases per million people
Cumulative confirmed COVID-19 cases per million people
Daily new confirmed COVID-19 deaths per million people
Cumulative confirmed COVID-19 deaths per million people

This is so embarrassing and pathetic! Why don't they just stop doing it?!

Nemesis
Posts:2822
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Location:Stockholm

Re: Vilka nationella eller regionala åtgärder mot coronavirus är evidensbaserade?

Post by Nemesis » Sat 23 Oct 2021, 19:01

Jag såg också den felaktiga informationen i DN tidigare idag. Säkert irriterande för svensk media att man enkelt kan kolla upp hur det egentligen ligger till genom t ex Our World in Data. Det är nog i detta sammanhang som man ska förstå Emma Frans uppmaning till "källtillit".
"Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof." - John Kenneth Galbraith

Nemesis
Posts:2822
Joined:Thu 12 Oct 2006, 22:04
Location:Stockholm

Re: Vilka nationella eller regionala åtgärder mot coronavirus är evidensbaserade?

Post by Nemesis » Sat 23 Oct 2021, 19:04

Image

Tänk vad mycket som skulle flaggas som missledande om Wold, Tegnell, med flera, twittrade på engelska.
"Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof." - John Kenneth Galbraith

Nemesis
Posts:2822
Joined:Thu 12 Oct 2006, 22:04
Location:Stockholm

Re: Vilka nationella eller regionala åtgärder mot coronavirus är evidensbaserade?

Post by Nemesis » Sat 23 Oct 2021, 23:02

The Great Barrington Declaration strikes back

A month after a BMJ article linking the Great Barrington Declaration to the right wing think tank AIER, the two are attacking the authors of the BMJ piece and denying any payment or even connection. Why?

About a year ago, three scientists wrote and issued the Great Barrington Declaration. When I wrote about it at the time, I characterized the Declaration as “magnified minority” and eugenics, the former because it followed a common crank playbook of issuing a declaration about a fringe science position and getting lots of doctors and scientists, the vast majority of whom have no expertise in the area, to sign it, and the latter for reasons I will describe. Named after the town in Massachusetts where the right wing “free market” think tank, the American Institute for Economic Research is located, the Great Barrington Declaration proposed, in essence, letting COVID-19 rip through the “healthy” younger population in order to build up “natural herd immunity,” all while using “focused protection” to protect those at high risk for severe disease and death from coronavirus, such as the elderly and those with chronic health conditions like type 2 diabetes.

Tellingly, what “focused protection” would actually mean in practice and how it would protect the vulnerable were never really described in sufficient detail to determine if this was a viable strategy. (Hint: It wasn’t, and, despite more recent claims by Great Barrington signatories, still doesn’t.) Basically, when I first encountered the Great Barrington Declaration, I couldn’t help but get the feeling that the whole thing had a “Screw the elderly and sick!” vibe to it that reeked of eugenics. Amusingly, when criticized, AIER portrayed itself and the advocates of the Great Barrington Declaration as the “new abolitionists,” parroting a common antimask and antivaccine theme that likens public health interventions against COVID-19 to “slavery.”
"Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof." - John Kenneth Galbraith

dann
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Joined:Sun 24 May 2020, 17:18

Re: Vilka nationella eller regionala åtgärder mot coronavirus är evidensbaserade?

Post by dann » Sun 24 Oct 2021, 05:18

Danish numbers: vaccinated vs. unvaccinated - hospitalizations & confirmed cases:
Screen dump from Politiken:
Hvis nogen var i tvivl om vacciner virker… et kig her er nok …sakset fra dagens @politiken - tak @SSI_dk
Nikolai C Brun on Twitter (Oct 22, 2021)
In the age group 60+, more than 95% are fully vaccinated, 50-59: 92%, 40-49: 87%, 30-39: 77%, 20-29: 75%, 10-19: 60% (10-11 not eligible for vacc).
Status på coronavirus lige nu (DR.dk)
Gennembrud for virus: Flere fuldt vaccinerede smittes. Det er der primært to årsager til (Politiken.dk, Oct 22, 2021)

dann
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Re: Vilka nationella eller regionala åtgärder mot coronavirus är evidensbaserade?

Post by dann » Sun 24 Oct 2021, 05:47

COVID-19 har ført til stor nedgang i forventet levealder (SDU.dk, Oct 6, 2021)
Screen dump of the article about önsketänk över kunskap (Oct 17, 2021)
– Sverige mislyktes i håndteringen av koronapandemien (Forskning.no, Oct 19, 2021)

dann
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Joined:Sun 24 May 2020, 17:18

Re: Vilka nationella eller regionala åtgärder mot coronavirus är evidensbaserade?

Post by dann » Sun 24 Oct 2021, 07:20

A German anti-vaxxer and fan of the Swedish strategy on ISF. It seems to work wonders for Sverigebilden when foreign media sees Sweden's number of registered cases without understanding that the relatively low number is due to very restricted testing.

dann
Posts:2180
Joined:Sun 24 May 2020, 17:18

Re: Vilka nationella eller regionala åtgärder mot coronavirus är evidensbaserade?

Post by dann » Sun 24 Oct 2021, 11:23

Another NZ-Sweden comparison:
Att öppna Nya Zeeland för snabbt under coronapandemin kan leda till ett ”modernt folkmord” på ursprungsbefolkningen maorier, varnar Maori-partiet.
– Om regeringen är redo att öppna gränserna så snart 90 procent av landet är vaccinerat så innebär det att de offrar maorier som lamm, säger Debbie Ngarewa-Packer, en av ledarna för partiet, enligt The Guardian.
Varnar för att öppna: ”Modernt folkmord” (Aftonbladet, Oct 11, 2021)
For some Swedish press that is now foregoing their own hard-to-reach vulnerable groups, the immigrants, to focus on NZ and our Māori population, thank you, but you should really focus on your own which are sitting at 43% at first doses compared to Māori update of 68.7%.
WicMar on Twitter (Oct 24, 2021)

Tokig tant
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Re: Vilka nationella eller regionala åtgärder mot coronavirus är evidensbaserade?

Post by Tokig tant » Sun 24 Oct 2021, 12:06

dann wrote:
Sun 24 Oct 2021, 11:23
...
Varför tar det så lång tid för kubanska ambassaden i Köpenhamn att formulera och sända dig den text, som du sedan ska lämna som svar till signaturen Nemesis i tråden om Kubas brister som rättsstat och dess avsaknad av ett demokratiskt samhälles fri- och rättigheter?

dann
Posts:2180
Joined:Sun 24 May 2020, 17:18

Re: Vilka nationella eller regionala åtgärder mot coronavirus är evidensbaserade?

Post by dann » Sun 24 Oct 2021, 13:38

Still time to join the webinar tonight:
Mexico City: 12 noon, Sunday, October 24
London: 6pm, Sunday, October 24
Berlin: 7pm, Sunday, October 24
Istanbul: 8pm, Sunday, October 24
Mumbai: 10.30pm, Sunday, October 24
Beijing: 1am, Monday, October 25
Sydney: 4am, Monday, October 25
Auckland: 6am, Monday, October 25
HOW TO END THE PANDEMIC - AN INTERNATIONAL WEBINAR WITH SCIENTISTS AND WORKERS (WSWS.org)
On YouTube: How to end the pandemic - Planlagt til 24. okt. 2021

dann
Posts:2180
Joined:Sun 24 May 2020, 17:18

Re: Vilka nationella eller regionala åtgärder mot coronavirus är evidensbaserade?

Post by dann » Sun 24 Oct 2021, 14:13

Det råder en samsyn mellan CDC, Danmark o Norge: ALLA vaccinerade med symtom SKALL testa sig !
Gösta Broholmer on Twitter (Oct 24, 2021)
And the USA's CDC recommends fully vaccinated people to get tested if they have had close contacts with people suspected of having the infection:
Based on evolving evidence, CDC recommends fully vaccinated people get tested 5-7 days after close contact with a person with suspected or confirmed COVID-19.
Interim Public Health Recommendations for Fully Vaccinated People (CDC, Oct 15, 2021)
Ved luftveissymptomer
Alle som er syke bør holde seg hjemme og ha lav terskel for å teste seg. Dette gjelder også for vaksinerte og beskyttede.
Følgende personer er anbefalt å teste seg:
Alle med nyoppståtte luftveissymptomer eller andre symptomer på covid-19, uavhengig av vaksinasjonsstatus
Isolering ved smitte
Det er et krav om at personer som er bekreftet smittet av covid-19, skal isolere seg. Dette gjelder også for vaksinerte og beskyttede.
Smittevernråd for befolkningen (Folkehelseinstituttet, Sep 25, 2021)
Husk, at du som færdigvaccineret altid skal følge anbefalingerne om at gå i selvisolation og blive testet, hvis du får symptomer på COVID-19. Det skyldes, at vaccinerne ikke er 100 % effektive, og der er derfor en lille risiko for, at du kan blive smittet og syg med COVID-19, selvom du er vaccineret.
Anbefalinger til dig, der er vaccineret (Sundhedsstyrelsen)

Nemesis
Posts:2822
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Location:Stockholm

Re: Vilka nationella eller regionala åtgärder mot coronavirus är evidensbaserade?

Post by Nemesis » Sun 24 Oct 2021, 15:24

dann wrote:
Sun 24 Oct 2021, 13:38
Still time to join the webinar tonight:
Mexico City: 12 noon, Sunday, October 24
London: 6pm, Sunday, October 24
Berlin: 7pm, Sunday, October 24
Istanbul: 8pm, Sunday, October 24
Mumbai: 10.30pm, Sunday, October 24
Beijing: 1am, Monday, October 25
Sydney: 4am, Monday, October 25
Auckland: 6am, Monday, October 25
HOW TO END THE PANDEMIC - AN INTERNATIONAL WEBINAR WITH SCIENTISTS AND WORKERS (WSWS.org)
On YouTube: How to end the pandemic - Planlagt til 24. okt. 2021
Avsluta pandemin? Enligt genierna på hemmaplan är det ju inte bra om smittspridningen upphör. :roll:
"Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof." - John Kenneth Galbraith

dann
Posts:2180
Joined:Sun 24 May 2020, 17:18

Re: Vilka nationella eller regionala åtgärder mot coronavirus är evidensbaserade?

Post by dann » Sun 24 Oct 2021, 18:15

Tokig tant wrote:
Sun 24 Oct 2021, 12:06
Varför tar det så lång tid för kubanska ambassaden i Köpenhamn att formulera och sända dig den text, som du sedan ska lämna som svar till signaturen Nemesis i tråden om Kubas brister som rättsstat och dess avsaknad av ett demokratiskt samhälles fri- och rättigheter?
Why does it take Tokig tant so long to understand that this is not the thread about Cuba, nor is it the thread about anything other than åtgärder mot coronavirus.

It is adorable that Tokig tant thinks that any Cuban embassy would be concerned about what is going on in this forum. My guess is that they are busy doing whatever international diplomacy consists of.

For the time being, I am busy translating a couple of texts related to Cuba. When they are finished and made accessible online, I will post links to them in either the Cuba thread or the thread about the so-called Havana Syndrome.

In order to focus on the aspect of Cuba that is relevant to this thread, I will post this open letter to president Biden from a group of Cubans responsible for country's vaccine programme:
An open letter to President Biden on COVID-19 vaccines for Cuba (AlJazeera, Aug 24, 2021)

The letter did not come to my attention until now because ... well, the Western media is uninterested in all things Cuban, no matter how impressive those things are, unless they can be used to make the country look bad. It is the reason why the Swedish media, and the Swedish media is far from alone in this, has reported as little about Cuba's very successful vaccine rollout as it has about the success of New Zealand's pandemic response in general and its vaccine rollout in particular.

A little background for the letter:

Daily COVID-19 vaccine doses administered per 100 people
Daily COVID-19 vaccine doses administered per 100 people
COVID-19 vaccine doses administered per 100 people
Share of people vaccinated against COVID-19

Daily new confirmed COVID-19 cases per million people
Cumulative confirmed COVID-19 cases per million people*

Daily new confirmed COVID-19 deaths per million people
Cumulative confirmed COVID-19 deaths per million people

*Much like in a comparison with the Nordic countries, simply looking at Sweden's number of registered cases will give you a very wrong idea of the share of people in the country that has had the infection. Since Sweden never tested children much, and since almost one third of school kids turned out to have been infected when tests based on detecting antibodies were carried out several months ago, there is ample reason to assume that Sweden's actual number of infections deviates considerably from the registered number.

Nemesis
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Location:Stockholm

Re: Vilka nationella eller regionala åtgärder mot coronavirus är evidensbaserade?

Post by Nemesis » Sun 24 Oct 2021, 18:31

dann wrote:
Sun 24 Oct 2021, 18:15
The letter did not come to my attention until now because ... well, the Western media is uninterested in all things Cuban, no matter how impressive those things are, unless they can be used to make the country look bad. It is the reason why the Swedish media, and the Swedish media is far from alone in this, has reported as little about Cuba's very successful vaccine rollout as it has about the success of New Zealand's pandemic response in general and its vaccine rollout in particular.
När det gäller svensk medierapportering så har det knappast specifikt med Kuba att göra, utan med att göra att man generellt inte rapporterar någonting om Sverige inte kan framstå som bäst.
Swedish media loves to compare our eligible rate (12+) with other countries total population rate (all ages) and then claim Swedish victory.

https://twitter.com/TheSleepOrg/status/ ... 6941501445
"Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof." - John Kenneth Galbraith

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